Posts by theron ware

8

On this day in history (7/1/1879)

by theron ware in

1879 american evangelist charles taze russell published the first issue of the watchtower, the most widely circulated magazine in the world.. .

(from today's wikipedia.org main page).

theron ware

1879 – American evangelist Charles Taze Russell published the first issue of The Watchtower, the most widely circulated magazine in the world.

(from today's wikipedia.org main page)

53

What exactly was going on after Jesus was put to death and no longer around?

by Terry in

the jesus believers were meeting in people's homes.

members of that community would take turns using private homes to gather.

thus, they went house to house.. these footstep tracers of jesus (they called themselves akolouthontes "followers" or some called themselves mathetai or "learners.

I think the Romans had bigger fish to fry than worry about the Jesus movement, which was certainly real but also certainly insigificant in terms of its size and the "threat" it may have posed to the empire. By the time there was a sizeable number of Christians (long, long after Jesus), it would have been too late to create such a conspiracy.

53

What exactly was going on after Jesus was put to death and no longer around?

by Terry in

the jesus believers were meeting in people's homes.

members of that community would take turns using private homes to gather.

thus, they went house to house.. these footstep tracers of jesus (they called themselves akolouthontes "followers" or some called themselves mathetai or "learners.

theron ware

For there to be apostacy there would have to be a STANDARD christianity which there NEVER was until it was forced by the pagan state in 325.

I think Terry's description of the post-crucifixion Jesus Movement (that's what I call it) is right-on. The crucifixion itself was totally unexpected and came as a complete shock to Jesus' followers. How they coped with the disaster, and what they did to regroup in its aftermath we do not know. The book of Acts (pure Pauline apologetics) notwithstanding, we know virtually nothing about James, Peter, John and the "Jerusalem congregation" in these years. Did it continue to exist? If so, did it continue in Jerusalem or retreat to Galilee? It is reasonable to suppose that if they did continue, then they continued following "the way," but I do not believe that they developed a christology resembling that of Paul. As Jews, their messianic hopes had been centered on a living Jesus and a restored (earthly) kingdom. The "suffering" servant references and Jesus own predictions of his death in the Gospels are pure ex post facto explanations.

To say that there was no standard Christianity until 325 is a bit of an over-simplification. Starting in the early second century, the so-called Church Fathers began deciding what beliefs were orthodox and which were heretical. In books I have read, the term "proto-orthodox" is usually applied to the beliefs that would later be encoded as the creeds of orthodox Christianity. And as we know, Jesus lost that battle too.

108

Infinity and god - why wait to create the universe?

by Simon in

here's the problem with infinity ... we can't comprehend it.. it's bad enough when it's space, but when it's time as well and then we throw in some all powerful creature supposedly existing forever ... well, it just doesn't make sense and raises questions.. such as why wait?

why didn't god create the universe the day before he did?

or the day before that?

theron ware

Science will never be able to answer the ultimate questions concerning "life, the universe, and everything." It will get closer and closer, but some unknowns will always remain, and we will have two choices: a religious explanation or the number 42.

I know because I googled "what is the answer to life the universe and everything"

58

What do you think happens when we die?

by cognac in

jw
friends

i'm trying to figure it out.

if we are just dead then there is no point to anything i do.

i'd like to hope our energy goes somewhere... but, i'd like to examine what somebody presents as proof....

theron ware

It'll be just like it was before you were conceived. Remember what that was like? I find the symmetry comforting.

32

Then (1960) and now (2013)

by theron ware in

i was raised as a jw from the age of 7. i was df'd for apostasy in 1971 at the age of 23. it has been 42 years since i have had contact with any jehovah's witnesses, including my family.

last year i moved to tucson.

when i read that a district assembly was coming to town, and that it would be at the convention center only minutes from my house, i decided to check it out.

theron ware

@Quandry

In my earlier post, I simplified the details of my post-df family relations. Here's the rest of the story.

As I mentioned earlier, my mother and younger brother were witnesses but my father was not. My mother cut me off when I was df'd in '71. Of course I am angry about that, but I can almost forgive her because she was doing what she thought she had to do, even though I know it hurt her. But my father also cut me off, which is inexplicable. I still have the "Dear John" letter he sent me to inform me that he was cutting me off in order to preserve peace at home. I could never forgive him for that.

Sometime in the mid-70's there was apparently a change in the WT policy on df relationships. I was getting married. We sent my family an invitation. My parents actually came to our wedding in Ohio. There was a brief period of perhaps two years during which we had limited (and very tense) contact with my parents. Then one day our phonecalls went unanswered. Apparently the WT had again "adjusted" its position on df relationships. I was cut off a second time, and again it was both parents!

In the mid-90's I learned that my mother had been diagnosed with dementa and needed 24h care. During this period I had contact with my brother, who worked with me to get legal custody of my mother. As co-guardians, we had limited interaction over the next few years while my mother wasted away in a nursing home. After my mother died, as we were standing in the cemetary for the burial, my sister-in-law informed me that her her husband and I would not be having any future contact.

So I was cut off three times, not just once.

32

Then (1960) and now (2013)

by theron ware in

i was raised as a jw from the age of 7. i was df'd for apostasy in 1971 at the age of 23. it has been 42 years since i have had contact with any jehovah's witnesses, including my family.

last year i moved to tucson.

when i read that a district assembly was coming to town, and that it would be at the convention center only minutes from my house, i decided to check it out.

theron ware

@Invetigator74

We belonged to the University Heights Congregation on Park Ave around 184th St in the Bronx. I don't think the KH is still there. Our congregation servant was David Sinclair. I don't think I ever saw him laugh smile. He is now one of the directors of the WBTS.

32

Then (1960) and now (2013)

by theron ware in

i was raised as a jw from the age of 7. i was df'd for apostasy in 1971 at the age of 23. it has been 42 years since i have had contact with any jehovah's witnesses, including my family.

last year i moved to tucson.

when i read that a district assembly was coming to town, and that it would be at the convention center only minutes from my house, i decided to check it out.

theron ware

@suavojr

The classic work on Jewish Messianism is Gershom Scholem's "The Messianic Idea in Judaism." It's available on Amazon as an e-book. It will help to know something about rabbinic Judaism (which developed out of Pharisaism) and the major Jewish texts (Mishnah, Talmud, Bible commentaries and midrash, Zohar, Kabbalah...), knowledge that Scholem takes for granted. For that, I recommend "Back to the Sources," also available as an e-book.

Scholem focuses less on second temple messianic movements than he does on mystical movements that swept the Jewish world during the middle ages and later. When you read about failed Jewish messiahs like Sabatai Zevi and Jacob Frank, you will see parallels to how Christianity had to evolve (or disappear) in the wake of the crucifiction.

A good textbook on the OT is "Reading the Old Testament" by Barry Bandstra. For the NT, I recommend "The New Testament" by Bart Ehrman. Both are academic (not devotional or inspirational) books used in introductory-level college religious studies courses that I have taken.

32

Then (1960) and now (2013)

by theron ware in

i was raised as a jw from the age of 7. i was df'd for apostasy in 1971 at the age of 23. it has been 42 years since i have had contact with any jehovah's witnesses, including my family.

last year i moved to tucson.

when i read that a district assembly was coming to town, and that it would be at the convention center only minutes from my house, i decided to check it out.

theron ware

@LoisLane looking for Superman

If you feel comfortable to share with us, how have you been? How have you replaced family and old friends? If you have children and grandchildren, how did you deal with that one?

Having lost family and friends, I had to start over. It was not easy, even with the clean break I was able to make by moving to a new life half-way across the country. My childhood and young adulthood had been so abnormal that I found it difficult to socialize and make friends with normal people. I felt like a complete outsider! It didn't help that I guarded the “secret” that might have helped people understand me better. I developed lasting friendships with Soviet emigres who had experienced a remarkably similar “shunning” when their families applied to leave the USSR in the '70's and early '80's. They also had to give up their childhood friends and learn to live in an alien culture.

I have spent a lifetime dealing with the sense of alienation from human society, and I'll never shake it completely. Telling my story helps. It is something I only started doing recently.

I'm not complaining. It is far worse for most ex-witnesses. I'm one of the lucky ones.

32

Then (1960) and now (2013)

by theron ware in

i was raised as a jw from the age of 7. i was df'd for apostasy in 1971 at the age of 23. it has been 42 years since i have had contact with any jehovah's witnesses, including my family.

last year i moved to tucson.

when i read that a district assembly was coming to town, and that it would be at the convention center only minutes from my house, i decided to check it out.

theron ware

@jamiebowers

I'm curious about the "apostate" beliefs for which you were disfellowshipped. Would the Watch Tower consider them as such today, 42 years later, or did you believe something back then that has become "new light" in the meantime?

Great question! Thank you for giving me a chance to organize my thoughts on this.

When I was in my mid-teens, I privately asked our congregation servant a question about the inter-testamental period, those 400 years between Malachi and Matthew, two books so neatly arranged to bridge the OT and NT in the Protestant Bible. He told me that my question was “off beat,” and that I should confine myself to studying the society's publications. Being a naturally-curious kid, this piqued my curiosity and I began reading about the Dead Sea Scrolls, Jewish apocryphal writings, and anything else I could get my hands on concerning late Jewish religious developments and Christian beginnings. I learned that there had been other Jewish apocalyptic movements and quite a few failed messiahs. I learned that certain OT books were actually written many years later than we were taught. For example, Daniel was not written in the mid-6 th century during the Babylonian captivity, it was written in the early 2 nd century during the time of the Maccabees. I read books on Paul's theology, and discovered that Paul, not Jesus, was the true founder of Christianity. I gradually stopped attending meetings and going out in field service, but I did not make a clean break.

I discussed my discoveries with a close witness friend. It started when he asked me, seemingly out of innocent curiosity, about the books I had been reading (we were both avid readers). I found out later that he had been asked to spy on me, and of course he was the one who betrayed me.

I received many invitations to meet with the judicial committee. My mother begged me not to go because she understood what the consequences would be. So I ignored the invitations all through college (I lived at home during college) . When I was ready to leave for graduate school, I accepted an invitation and was DF'd. When I returned home from the judicial committee meeting, it was clear that my relationship with my family was now permanently severed. I got on the bus the next day and went off to the university, and that was the end of the contact with my family. Fortunately I was young, unmarried, and had no witness relatives, so the cost to me was not as great as it is for most witnesses who are ejected from the fold. I do miss some of the friends I grew up with, and would love to make contact with them if they are no longer in the cult.

Would the witnesses consider my actions grounds for disfellowshipping today? My thoughts alone would probably be grounds. If they had a way of reading people's minds, I'm sure they would use it.

Although I have no religion and feel no need of one, I have maintained a life-long academic interest in religion and religious studies. After I retired, I started taking college courses in the religious studies department. I'm looking forward to taking a course on Jewish Apocalypticism this fall! I attend a weekly book group at a local liberal Protestant church (they love having a secular humanist who knows more about Christianity and the Bible then they do!) and I sing with their choir during Advent and Lent.